In this edition of our interview series with OpenStreetMap community members around the world, I chat with Jochen Topf.
Jochen is a very long-time member fo the OpenStreetMap community. He has been very active as a mapper, but also an organizer within the community, particularly in Germany. He is co-author of a book about OpenStreetMap (published in English as “OpenStreetMap: Using and Enhancing the Free Map of the World”), has spoken at many OpenStreetMap events over the years, and is a developer of some of the core OpenStreetMap software. He now works part-time for FOSSGIS e.V, the non-profit that serves as the local chapter of the OpenStreetMap Foundation in Germany (as an aside, we at OpenCage are proud to be corporate members of FOSSGIS and the OpenStreetMap Foundation).
Amongst much else Jochen is currently working on a project to broaden the level of financial support for OpenStreetMap in Germany, and I wanted to explore this topic as it has relevance for many OSM communities around the world.
1. Who are you and what do you do? What got you into OpenStreetMap?
My name is Jochen Topf. I have been active in the OpenStreetMap project since 2006. I started out as a mapper when the map was mostly empty and OSM was a good opportunity to get away from my computer and get some exercise on my bike while doing something useful for the world. I soon got into writing software for OSM, first as a hobby and later as a job. I work as a freelance software developer, mainly doing C++ development around my Osmium project and on osm2pgsql, but I also created and maintain taginfo and lots of other software. I have written a book about OSM and given many presentations about it. There is a long list of my OSM activities on my homepage.
For about 18 months now I also work part-time for FOSSGIS e.V., the German local chapter of the OSM Foundation, I am the only one getting paid to do OSM stuff there. My job is helping with communication and coordination inside and outside the OSM community. This is everything from updating our web site to writing statements about planned legislation in Germany that would impact the work of OSM, to helping government and other organisations understand, use, and contribute to OSM.
2. You are leading an effort to get more companies to financially sponsor OpenStreetMap in Germany, why? What is the current status of OpenStreetMap’s finances? Why does OSM need money? What is the goal of this project?
OpenStreetMap is widely used today. Everywhere you look you’ll find OSM maps and other products and services based on OSM. Some people consciously use OSM maps, but much more people use it without even knowing. Basically all the apps used for outdoor activities like hiking and mountain biking use OSM data, DHL plans their delivery routes with OSM, insurance companies give you discounts on your car insurance if you drive below the speed limit which they get from OSM, public transport companies calculate routes from platform to platform through complex train stations using OSM maps, emergency services are dispatched using OSM maps, and so on. OpenStreetMap is a public infrastructure that needs to be maintained. And there is much more that needs to be done than mapping. There are servers to run, software need to be updated, documentation needs to be written. And with the popularity of OSM come problems, problems like more strain on our servers and more vandalism, but also conflicts around what is allowed in the map and what not. More people affected by OSM maps means more questions, more need to explain what we are doing. Somebody has to deal with all of that. So far this has mostly been volunteers and while there are plenty of volunteers for mapping, there aren’t that many who get involved more deeply.
Generally OSM is severely underfunded, in Germany but also everywhere else in the world. The project we are most often compared to, Wikipedia, has 200 full-time staff in Germany alone. In OSM Germany, we struggle to pay one part-time staff. There are not even a dozen people in the world getting paid by the OSM Foundation and all its local chapters put together. It puts a lot of strain on the volunteers and a lot of work does not get done. And I believe it should be possible to work on good things like OSM and still make a living. There are lots of people out there who would like to contribute more but can’t, because they need to earn a living elsewhere.
So the idea is to get at least some of the companies and other organisations that use OSM extensively to give a little bit back to the project. Of course they could also become corporate members of the OSM Foundation, but it is easier for a German company to give something to a German non-profit and it is easier for us to approach local companies here. We’ll use that money to support our OSM activities in Germany, but also contribute resources and money to the international project.
3. How does this differ from becoming a corporate member of FOSSGIS?
In the international OSM Foundation, corporate members are very different from “normal” members. They don’t have voting rights and they pay a lot more money. Despite the name, corporate members are really more sponsors than members. This is different in the German FOSSGIS, where corporate members have voting rights like normal members do and don’t pay much more than normal members (just 200 EUR per year). This is just the way things were set up historically. We decided to leave this system in place but create a new supporter program that gives companies and other organizations a status that’s similar to corporate members in the OSMF but uses different terminology. The end goal is the same: Create a way to generate some income for OSM from those who use OSM the most and make a profit from it.
4. How to find a sustainable business model around open source software has been a long-running topic in the past decades. How does this translate to open data?
We are basically seeing the same problems and solutions. Because the “main thing” (the software/the data) is distributed for free, everybody has to find a way to charge for something extra. For software that’s often access to non-free add-ons, custom development or something like it. For data it can be processing of the data into a form that’s more useful for the client, like a finished map instead of the raw data. In the end it often comes down to: Is there somebody you can ask if you need some service that you don’t want to build yourself, and, if anything breaks, can you call them on the phone and get them to fix it. That’s what lots of companies want and are willing to pay for it. And that’s why there is a whole eco-system of companies around OSM.
5. Speaking for myself, as someone who has started and run various businesses, sometimes it is challenging to interact with the free-form OpenStreetMap “community”, where no one is really in charge. What advice do you have for businesses / organizations that want to engage with the OpenStreetMap community?
I think the first thing the business needs to realize is that OpenStreetMap is not one thing. OSM is much bigger and more diverse than most people realize, even most OSM community members themselves. You wouldn’t expect to be able to contact the one person responsible for the Internet either. So don’t try to find the person in charge. Instead, find somebody with more experience with OSM and listen to them.
Of course that’s easier said then done. How to find such a person? You might be able to find a local meetup or go to an event that has OSM people there. For Germany we have a list of events on our web site that are organized by the community or where OSM has a booth. You can also find a company with OSM experience and let them help you. Look for people who have given presentations about OSM at events for instance to get some idea of whom to contact. Be prepared to get frustrated and be willing to learn.
All that being said, I see it as our (the OSM communities) responsibility to do a better job at communicating with the rest of the world. This is one reason we need money, to pay people to do this communicating. In fact this is a large part of my job now, improving the openstreetmap.de website to include more information helping “outsiders” understand OSM, giving presentations on OSM and so on. And I am the point of contact in Germany for government and non-profit organisations.
6. Last year OpenStreetMap celebrated 20 years. As someone who has been very active in OSM in so many ways (mapper, software developer, founder of a company that relies on OSM, etc) for a long time, where do you think the project will be in another 20 years?
In the last years we have already been seeing a shift from OSM being a volunteer-only effort to a project where community, public and commercial interest work side by side to improve the map data. I think this trend will get even stronger over the next years and I believe in 20 years OSM will be part of the everyday public infrastructure that’s just there. When the Internet started to get big in the mid/late 1990ies, people debated whether their company or other organisation needed a presence on the web and complained how difficult and expensive it was to create a web site. Today, this isn’t even talked about any more. Everybody has a web site, you can create one yourself, large companies pay a marketing company or have in-house staff. There is a whole eco-system of services around the web. Every company, product, university project, NGO effort, or government activity has a web site. In 20 years many more people and organisations will contribute to OSM in one way or another. We’ll still have the volunteer community but also a lot of effort from companies, government agencies and so on contributing that part of the data which they know best. Some will do the work themselves, others will pay service companies to do the work, but everybody will contribute in some way because it just makes sense to be where everybody else is.
Thank you, Jochen! For the interview, but also for all of your work on and for OpenStreetMap over many years. One point really resonated with me: OpenStreetMap is more diverse than even most members of the community appreciate. The scale of the project is - in the truest sense - global. This is what makes OpenStreetMap so wonderful, but also so challenging.
Jochen, we wish you the best of luck in your efforts to broaden the size of the community and to help establish a solid financial foundation for further growth.
Happy mapping,
Please let us know if your community would like to be part of our interview series here on our blog. If you are or know of someone we should interview, please get in touch, we’re always looking to promote people doing interesting things with open geo data.